Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Théorie, jeu, répertoire, enseignement, partitions
Wandarnok
Messages : 1921
Enregistré le : mar. 24 sept., 2013 12:41

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Wandarnok »

kerry117 a écrit :Ochi, j'ai utilisé cette méthode pendant longtemps. Oui c'est efficace ! Mémoriser par mesure permet d'aller vite. Plus le fragment est court, plus c'est facile et rapide.
Depuis que j'utilise "l'analyse" dans mon travail, le travail de mémorisation se fait sans que j'ai l'impression d'apprendre PC. Il me semble que "l'analyse" donne des moyens mnémotechniques, c'est comme les N° de tel que l'on peut mémoriser très vite parce que en les voyants la premières fois on s'est raconté une histoire qui va permettre de retrouver très vite les n°.
Je vais dans ton sens (tu as posté juste avant moi, mon "non" dans mon post précedent n'est pas pour toi :wink: ).
Par contre, l'analyse, c'est plutot pour comprendre pas pour trouver des moyens "mnémos".
Certains comparent une pièce à une foret dont le PC revient à en connaitre tous les recoins.
Il est très facile de se perdre en foret. :mrgreen:
L'analyse, les differentes mémoires, etc, permettent, et de cartographier, et d'avoir toujours la carte sur soi, et de savoir la lire (vite!).
8)
Ochi
Messages : 41
Enregistré le : dim. 13 juil., 2014 18:26

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Ochi »

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Modifié en dernier par Ochi le mer. 07 févr., 2018 20:32, modifié 1 fois.
kerry117
Messages : 446
Enregistré le : jeu. 28 mai, 2015 11:44
Mon piano : Kawai
Localisation : Ille-et-Vilaine

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par kerry117 »

Wandarnok a écrit :Par contre, l'analyse, c'est plutot pour comprendre pas pour trouver des moyens "mnémos".
Entièrement d'accord, mais quand on comprend on retient mieux. Dans mon cas, je constate que ces moyens mnémotechniques apparaissent spontanément, comme des réflex acquis après un long travail personnel.
Ochi
Messages : 41
Enregistré le : dim. 13 juil., 2014 18:26

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Ochi »

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Modifié en dernier par Ochi le mer. 07 févr., 2018 20:31, modifié 1 fois.
Wandarnok
Messages : 1921
Enregistré le : mar. 24 sept., 2013 12:41

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Wandarnok »

Le chapitre "d'introduction" sur la mémorisation dans une des versions "on line" du bouquin de Chang (cette version du livre EST un blog):

http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/chapter_1

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1.II.12] Learning, Memorizing, and Mental Play

There is no faster way of memorizing than to memorize when you are first learning a piece and, for a difficult piece, there is no faster way of learning than memorizing it. Start memorizing by learning how the music should sound: melody, rhythm, etc. Then use the sheet music to find and memorize each key on the piano for each note on the sheet music; this is called keyboard memory – you memorize how you play this piece on the piano, complete with the fingering, hand motions, etc. Some pianists use photographic memory, in which they photographically memorize the sheet music. If one were to take a sheet of music and just try to memorize it note for note, this task would be impossibly difficult for practically every pianist. However, once you know the music (melody, etc.), it becomes quite easy for almost everyone! This is explained in section III.6, where you will find more detailed discussions on how to memorize. I prefer keyboard memory to photographic memory because it helps you to find the notes on the piano without having to "read" the music in your head. Memorize each section that you are practicing for technique while you are repeating them so many times, in small segments, HS.
The procedures for memorizing are basically the same as those for technique acquisition. For example, memorization should be started HS, difficult sections first, etc. If you memorize later, you will have to repeat the same procedure again. It might appear that going through the same procedure a second time would be simpler. It is not. Memorizing is a complex task (even after you can play the piece well); therefore, students who try to memorize after learning a piece will either give up or never memorize it completely. This is understandable; the effort required to memorize can quickly reach the point of diminishing returns if you can already play the piece.

Two important items to memorize are the time signature (see section III.1.2) and key signature (see section III.5.4). The time signature is simple to understand and will help you to play with the correct rhythm. The key signature (how many sharps or flats) is more complex because it does not tell you the precise key (scale) it is in (C-major, etc.). If you know that the composition is in a major or minor scale, the key signature tells you the key; for example if the key signature has no sharps or flats (as in Fur Elise), it is in either C major or A minor (see section III.5.4). Most students know the major scales; you will need to know more theory to figure out the minor keys; therefore, only those with enough theory knowledge should memorize the key. If you are not sure, just memorize the key signature. This key designation is the basic tonality of the music around which the composer uses chord progressions to change keys. Most compositions start and end with the base tonality and the chords generally progress along the circle of fifths (see Ch. Two, 2.2). So far, we know that Fur Elise is either in C major or A minor. Since it is somewhat melancholy, we suspect a minor. The first 2 bars are like a fanfare that introduces the first theme, so the main body of the theme starts on bar 3, which is A, the tonic of A minor! Moreover, the final chord is also on the tonic of A minor. So we are almost certain that it is in A minor. The only accidental in A minor is G# (see section 1.III.5.4), which we find in bar 4; therefore we conclude that it is in A minor. When you understand these details, you can really memorize well.

Let's revisit the time signature, which is 3/8; three beats per measure (bar), an eighth per beat. Thus it is in the format of a waltz but musically, it should not be played like a dance but much more smoothly because it is melancholy and hauntingly romantic. The time signature tells us that bars like bar 3 must not be played as two triplets because there are 3 beats. However, there is no need to overly accent the first beat of every bar like a Viennese Waltz. The time signature is clearly useful for playing musically and correctly. Without the time signature, you can easily form incorrect rhythmic habits that will make your playing sound amateurish to the experts.

Once students develop memorizing-learning routines that are comfortable for them, most of them will find that learning and memorizing together takes less time than learning alone, for difficult passages. This happens because you eliminate the process of looking at the music, interpreting it, and passing the instructions from the eyes to the brain and then to the hands. Some might worry that memorizing too many compositions will create an unsustainable maintenance problem (see section III.6.3 for a discussion of memory maintenance). The best approach to this problem is not to worry if you forget some pieces that are seldom played. This is because recalling a forgotten piece is very fast as long as it was memorized well the first time. Material memorized when young (before about age 20) is almost never forgotten. This is why it is so critical to learn fast methods of technique acquisition and to memorize as many pieces as possible before reaching the later teen years. It is easier to memorize something if you can play it fast; therefore, if you have difficulty memorizing it initially at slow speed, don't worry; it will become easier as you speed it up.

The only way to memorize well is to learn Mental Play (MP). In fact, MP is the logical and ultimate goal of all these practice methods that we are discussing because technique alone will not enable you to perform flawlessly, musically, and without getting nervous. Read section III.6.10 for more details on MP. In this method, you learn to play the piano in your mind, away from the piano, complete with accurate fingering and your concept of how you want the music to sound. You can use keyboard memory or photographic memory for MP, but I recommend keyboard memory for beginners because it is more efficient; for advanced players, keyboard memory and photographic memory are the same, since if you can do one, the other follows naturally. Whenever you memorize a small section, close your eyes and see if you can play it in your mind. Once you have memorized an entire piece (HS), you should also be able to play that in your head. This is the time to analyze the structure of the music, how it is organized and how the themes develop as the music progresses. With practice, you will find that it requires only a small investment of time to acquire MP. Best of all, you will also discover that once solid MP is established, your memory is as good as it can get; you will have confidence that you will be able to play without mistakes, blackouts, etc., and will be able to concentrate on music. MP also helps technique; for example, it is much easier to play at a fast speed after you can mentally play it at that speed; very often, the inability to play fast originates in the brain. One benefit of MP is that you can practice it at any time, anywhere, and can greatly increase your effective practice time.

Memory is an associative process. Super memorizers (including some savants) and all concert pianists who can memorize hours of music depend on algorithms with which to associate their memory (whether they know it or not). Musicians are especially fortunate in this regard because music is just such an algorithm. Nonetheless, this "memory trick" of using music as an algorithm to memorize is seldom formally taught to music students; instead, they are often advised to keep repeating "until the music is in the hands", which is one of the worst methods of memory because, as we shall see in section III.6.4, repetition results in "hand memory" which is a false type of memory that can lead to many problems, such as blackouts. With MP, you associate the music in your mind with how you produce it at the piano. It is important to practice MP without playing the piano because you can acquire "sound memory" (just as you can acquire "hand memory") and use the sound of the piano as a crutch for recall, and sound memory can cause the same problems associated with hand memory.

Why are memory and MP so important? They not only solve the practical problems of technique and performance but also advance your musicianship and increase intelligence. Just as you can speed up a computer by adding memory, you can increase your effective intelligence by improving your memory. In fact, one of the first signs of mental deterioration, such as Alzheimer's, is loss of memory. It is now clear that many of those feats of great musicians such as Mozart were simple byproducts of strong MP, and that such skills can be learned.
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J'ai mis en gras ce qui est en gras dans le Chang, ni plus ni moins, et surtout pour facililiter la lecture ou le parcours de ce chapitre dont on a souvent parlé ici mais dont personne ne donne ou ne cite le détail.
Ensuite, chacun voit.
8)

Ci dessous le chapitre complet intitulé justement "memorizing".

[1.III.6.1] Why Memorize?

The reasons for memorizing are so compelling that it is surprising that many people have been unaware of them. Advanced pianists must play from memory because of the high level of technical skill that is expected. For practically all students (including those who consider themselves to be non-memorizers) the most difficult passages are played from memory. Non-memorizers may need the sheet music in front of them for psychological support and for small cues here and there, but in fact, they are playing difficult passages from "hand memory" (explained below).

The rewards of this book accrue because it is a total package; i.e., the whole is larger than the sum of its parts. Memorizing is a good example. In order to understand this, let's look at those students who do not memorize. Once a new piece is "learned", but not yet perfected, non-memorizers typically abandon the piece and go on to the next one, partly because it takes so long to learn new pieces and partly because reading the score is not conducive to performing difficult pieces. Statistically, students who do not memorize never learn any piece well, and this handicap limits technical development. Now if they were able to learn quickly and memorize at the same time, they will be making music with all their finished pieces the rest of their lives! We are not just talking about memorizing or not memorizing a piece -- we are talking about a lifetime of difference in your development as an artist, and whether you really have a chance to make music. It is the difference between a performing artist and a student who never has a performable piece. There are many more advantages to memorizing; instead of listing them here, we will discuss them as we encounter them while learning how to memorize below.

Finally, memorizing benefits brain development in youth and decelerates its deterioration with age. Memorizing piano music will not only improve your memory in daily life but will also slow down memory loss with age and even improve the brain's capacity to memorize. You will become a "memory expert", giving you confidence in your ability to remember; lack of confidence is a major cause of poor memory as well as many other problems, such as low self esteem. Memory affects intelligence and good memory raises the effective IQ.

In my youth, life seemed so complicated that, in order to simplify it, I intuitively subscribed to the "principle of least knowledge" which posits that the less unnecessary information you stuff into your brain, the better. This theory is analogous to that for disk memory in a computer: the more clutter you delete, the more memory you have left for use. I now know that this approach breeds laziness and an inferiority complex that you are not a good memorizer, and is harmful to the brain because it is like saying that the less muscle you use, the stronger you will become because there is more energy left over. The brain has more memory capacity than anyone can jam into it in a lifetime but if you don't learn how to use it, you will never benefit from its full potential. I suffered a lot from my early mistake. I was afraid to go bowling because I could not keep score in my head like everyone else. Since I changed my philosophy so that I now try to memorize everything, life has improved dramatically. I even try to memorize the slope and break on every golf green I play. That can have a huge effect on the golf score. Needless to say, the corresponding benefits to my piano career have been beyond description.

Memory is an associative function of the brain. An associative function is one in which one object is associated with another by a relationship. Practically everything we experience is stored in our brains whether we like it or not, and once the brain transfers this information from temporary to permanent storage (an automatic process that usually takes 2 to 5 minutes), it is there practically for life. Therefore, when we memorize, storing the information is not the problem -- retrieving it is the problem because unlike the computer, in which all data have addresses, our memory is retrieved by a process that is not yet understood. The best understood retrieval process is the associative process: to recall John's telephone number, we first think of John, then recall that he has several phones and then remember that his cell phone number is 123-4567. That is, the number is associated with the cell phone, which is associated with John. Each digit in the phone number has a huge array of associations related to our life's experience with numbers, starting with the first time we learned numbers as a young child. Without these associations, we wouldn't have any idea what numbers are and would therefore not be able to recall them at all. "John" also has many associations (such as his house, family, etc.) and the brain must filter them all out and follow the "telephone" association in order to find the number. Because of the huge information processing power of the brain, the retrieval process is more efficient if there are more associations and these associations quickly increase in size as more items are memorized because they can be cross-associated. Therefore the human memory is almost diametrically opposite to the computer memory: the more you memorize, the easier it becomes to memorize because you can create more associations. Our memory capacity is so large that it is effectively infinite. Even good memorizers never "saturate" their memory until the ravages of age take their toll. As more material is put into memory, the number of associations increases geometrically. This geometrical increase partly explains the enormous difference in the memorizing capacity between good and poor memorizers. Thus everything we know about memory tells us that memorizing can only benefit us

1.III.6.2] Who can, What to, and When to, Memorize

Anyone can learn to memorize if taught the proper methods. A proper integration of the memorizing and learning procedures can reduce the time required to learn, in effect assigning a negative time to memorizing. Almost all of the procedures for memorizing are the same as the learning procedures that we have already covered. If you separate these processes, you will end up having to go through the same procedure twice. Few people would be able to go through such an ordeal; this explains why those who do not memorize during the initial learning process never memorize well. If you can play a piece well but had not memorized it, it can be very frustrating to try to memorize it. Too many students have convinced themselves that they are poor memorizers because of this difficulty.

Because memorizing is the fastest way to learn, you should memorize every worthwhile piece you play. Memorizing is a free byproduct of the process of learning a new piece of music. Thus in principle, the instructions for memorizing are trivial: simply follow the learning rules given in this book, with the additional requirement that everything you do during those learning procedures be performed from memory. For example, while learning a LH accompaniment bar-by-bar, memorize those LH bars. Since a bar is typically 6 to 12 notes, memorizing that is trivial. Then you will need to repeat these segments 10, 100, or over 1,000 times, depending on difficulty, before you can play the piece -- that is many more repetitions than needed to memorize. You can't help but memorize it! Why waste such a priceless, one-time opportunity?

We saw, in part I and II, that the key to learning technique quickly was to reduce the music to trivially simple subsets; those same procedures also make these subsets trivial to memorize. Memorizing can save a tremendous amount of practice time. You don't need to look for the music each time, so you can practice a Beethoven Sonata RH segment and a Chopin Scherzo LH section HS, and jump from segment to segment as you desire. You can concentrate on learning the technique without distractions from having to refer to the music every time. Best of all, the numerous repetitions you need, to practice the piece, will commit it to memory in a way that no other memorizing procedure will ever achieve, at no extra cost of time. These are some of the reasons why memorizing before you learn is the only way.

[1.III.6.3] Memorizing and Maintenance

A memorized repertoire requires two investments of time: the first is for memorizing the piece initially and a second "maintenance" component for implanting the memory more permanently and for repairing any forgotten sections. During the lifetime of a pianist, the second component is by far the larger one because the initial investment is zero or even negative. Maintenance is one reason why some give up memorizing: why memorize if I am going to forget it anyway? Maintenance can limit the size of a repertoire because after memorizing, say, five to ten hours of music, the maintenance requirements may preclude memorizing any more pieces depending on the person. There are several ways to extend your repertoire beyond any maintenance limit. An obvious one is to abandon the memorized pieces and to re-memorize later as needed. Pieces that are well memorized can be re-polished quickly, even if they haven't been played for years. It is almost like riding a bicycle; once you learn how to ride a bicycle, you never need to re-learn it all over again. We now discuss maintenance procedures that can greatly increase your memorized repertoire.

Memorize as many pieces as possible before the age of 20. Pieces learned in those early years are practically never forgotten and, even if forgotten, are most easily recalled. This is why youngsters should be encouraged to memorize all their repertoire pieces. Pieces learned after age 40 require more memorizing effort and maintenance, although many people have no trouble memorizing new pieces past age 60 (albeit more slowly than before). Note the word "learn" in the preceding sentences; they do not have to have been memorized and you can still memorize them later with better retention properties compared to pieces learned or memorized at an older age.

There are times when you do not need to memorize, such as when you want to learn large numbers of easy pieces, especially accompaniments, that would take too long to memorize and maintain. Another class of music that should not be memorized is the group of pieces that you use to practice sight reading. Sight reading is a separate skill that is treated in section III.11. Everyone should have a memorized repertoire and a sight reading repertoire.

1.III.6.4] Hand Memory

A large component of your initial memory will be hand memory, which comes from repeated practice. The hand just goes on playing without your really remembering each note. Although we will discuss all the known types of memory below, we will start with analyzing hand memory first because historically, it was frequently thought of as the only and best method of memory although, in reality, it is the least important. "Hand memory" has at least two components: a reflex hand motion that comes from touching the keys and a reflex in the brain from the sound of the piano. Both serve as cues for your hand to move in a pre-programmed way. For simplicity, we will lump them together and call them hand memory. Hand memory is useful because it helps you to memorize at the same time that you practice the piece. In fact, everybody must practice common constructs, such as scales, arpeggios, Alberti accompaniments, etc., from hand memory so that your hands can play them automatically, without having to think about every note. Therefore, when you start to memorize a new piece, there is no need to consciously avoid hand memory. Once acquired, you will never lose hand memory, and we show below how to use it to recover from blackouts.

When we talk about hand memory, we usually mean HT memory. Because hand memory is acquired only after many repetitions, it is one of the most difficult memories to erase or change. This is one of the main reasons for HS practice -- to avoid acquiring incorrect HT habits that will be so difficult to change. HS memory is fundamentally different from HT memory. HS play is simpler and can be controlled directly from the brain. In HT memory, you need some kind of feedback in order to coordinate the hands (and probably the two halves of the brain) to the accuracy needed for music. Therefore, HS practice is the most effective method for avoiding the dependence on hand memory, and to start using the better methods of memory discussed below.

[1.III.6.5] Starting the Memorizing Process

Start the memorizing process by simply following the instructions of sections I and II, and memorizing each practice segment before you start practicing it. The best test of your memory is to play that segment in your mind, without the piano -- this is called Mental Play (MP), which will be discussed at length below. How well you understand and remember a piece depends on speed. As you play faster, you tend to remember the music at higher levels of abstraction. At very slow play, you must remember it note by note; at higher speeds, you will be thinking in terms of musical phrases and at even higher speeds you may be thinking in terms of relationships between phrases or entire musical concepts. These higher level concepts are always easier to memorize. This is why HS practice, and getting quickly up to speed, will help the memorizing step. However, to test your memory, you must do the opposite – play slowly, as explained below.

Even if you can play HT, you should memorize it HS. This is one of the few instances in which memorizing and learning procedures differ. If you can play a section HT easily, there is no need to practice it HS for technique. However, for performing the piece, memorizing it HS will be useful for recovering from blackouts, for maintenance, etc. If you test the memory (e.g., by trying to play from somewhere in the middle of a piece), you may find that it is easier if you had memorized it HS.

Memory is an associative process; therefore there is nothing as helpful as your own ingenuity in creating associations. So far, we saw that HS, HT, music, and playing at different speeds are elements you can combine in this associative process. Any music you memorize will help you memorize future pieces of music. The memory function is extremely complex; its complex nature is the reason why intelligent people are often also good memorizers, because they can quickly think of useful associations. Conversely, if you learn to memorize, your effective IQ will go up. By memorizing HS, you add two more associative processes (RH and LH) with much simpler organization than HT. Once you have memorized a page or more, break it up into logical smaller musical phrases of about 10 bars and start playing these phrases randomly; i.e., practice the art of starting play from anywhere in the piece. If you had used the methods of this book to learn this piece, starting randomly should be easy because you learned it in small segments. It is really exhilarating to be able to play a piece from anywhere you want and this skill never ceases to amaze the audience. Another useful memorizing trick is to play one hand and imagine the other hand in your mind at the same time. If you can do this, you have memorized it very well!

Memory is first stored in temporary or short-term memory. It takes 2 to 5 minutes for this memory to be transferred to long term memory. This has been verified innumerable times from tests on head trauma victims: they can remember only up to 2 to 5 minutes before the trauma incident; we saw a most vivid example of this from the survivor of Princess Diana's fatal accident – he could not remember the accident or the few minutes prior to the accident. After transferal to long term memory, your ability to recall this memory decreases unless there is reinforcement. If you repeat one passage many times, you are acquiring hand memory and technique, but the total memory is not reinforced proportionately to the number of repeats. It is better to wait 2 to 5 minutes and to re-memorize again.

In summary, memorize in phrases or groups of notes; never try to memorize each note. The faster you play, the easier it is to memorize because you can see the phrases and structure more easily. This is why memorizing HS is so effective. Many poor memorizers instinctively slow down and end up trying to memorize individual notes when they encounter difficulties. This is precisely the wrong thing to do. Poor memorizers can not memorize, not because their memory is not good, but because they do not know how to memorize. One cause of poor memory is confusion. This is why memorizing HT is not a good idea; you cannot play as fast as HS and there is more material that can cause confusion. Good memorizers have methods for organizing their material so that there is less confusion. Memorize in terms of musical themes, how these evolve, or the skeletal structure which is embellished to produce the final music. Slow practice is good for memory, not because it is easier to memorize playing slowly, but because it is a tough test of how well you have memorized.

[1.III.6.6] Reinforcing the Memory

One of the most useful memory devices is reinforcement. A forgotten memory, when regained, is always better remembered. Many people fret that they forget. Most people need to forget and re-memorize three or four times before anything is permanently memorized. In order to eliminate the frustrations from forgetting and to reinforce memory, try to purposely forget, for example, by not playing a piece for a week or more and then re-learning it. Or quit before you completely memorize so you must start all over again the next time. Or instead of repeating short sections (the method you used initially to memorize the piece), play the entire piece, only once a day, or several times a day but several hours apart. Find out ways of making you forget (like memorizing many things at once); try to create artificial blackouts -- stop in the middle of a phrase and try to restart.

Memorizing new material tends to make you forget whatever you had memorized previously. Therefore, spending a lot of time memorizing a small section is not efficient. If you choose just the right number of things to memorize, you can use one to control the "forgetting" of the other so that you can re-memorize it for better retention. This is an example of how experienced memorizers can fine-tune their memorizing routines.

[1.III.6.10] Establishing Permanent Memory -- Mental Play

There are at least five basic methods of memorizing; they are: (1) hand memory (audio/tactile), (2) music memory (aural), (3) photographic memory (visual), (4) keyboard memory/mental play (visual/tactile, brain), and (5) theoretical memory (brain). Practically everybody uses a combination of them. Most people rely mainly on one and use the others as supplementary help.

We already discussed hand memory above (section III.6.4). It is acquired by simple repetition until the "music is in the hands". In the intuitive school of teaching, this was thought to be the best way to memorize, because of a lack of better methods. What we want to do now is to replace it with true memory in order to establish a more permanent and reliable memory.

[1.III.6.10.1] Music Memory

Music memory is based on the music: the melody, rhythm, expression, emotion, etc. This approach works best for artistic and musical types of persons who have strong feelings associated with their music. Those with perfect pitch will also do well because they can find the notes on the piano just from the memory of the music. People who like to compose also tend to use this type of memory. Musicians do not automatically have good musical memory. It depends on the type of brain they have, although it is trainable, as discussed in section III.6.m below. For example, people with good music memory can also remember other things, such as the name of the composer and the name of the composition. They have good melody recall, so that they can hum the music if you tell them the title, for most compositions that they have heard a few times.

The most important function of music memory is to serve as the memory algorithm. We shall see in section "m" below that all super memorizers use some type of algorithm for memorizing. The keys to successful memorizing are having an algorithm and knowing how to use it. Musicians are lucky because they don't have to invent an algorithm – music is one the best algorithms around! This is the main reason why concert pianists can play for hours without missing a note. Until we understood this aspect of memory, we had attributed such memory feats to "talent" or "genius", but in reality, it is a memory skill that is easily learned, as described below.

[1.III.6.10.2] Photographic Memory

You memorize the entire sheet music and actually picture it and read it in the mind. Even those who think that they do not have photographic memory, can achieve it if they practice photographic memory routinely as they practice the piece from the very beginning. Many people will find that, if they are diligent about this procedure from day one (of when they start the piece), there will be only an average of a few bars per page that are not photographically memorized by the time they can play the piece satisfactorily. One way to photographically memorize is to follow exactly the methods outlined here for technique and memory, but to also photographically memorize the sheet music at the same time, hand by hand, bar-by-bar, and segment by segment.

Another way to approach photographic memory is to start memorizing the general outline first, like how many lines there are in the page and how many bars per line; then the notes in each bar, then the expression markings, etc. That is, start with the gross features, and then gradually fill in the details. Start photographic memory by memorizing one hand at a time. You really need to take an accurate photograph of the page, complete with its defects and extraneous marks. If you have difficulty memorizing certain bars, draw something unusual there, such as a smiley face or your own markings that will jolt your memory. Then next time you want to recall this section, think of the smiley face first.

One advantage of photographic memorization is that you can work on it without the piano, anytime, anywhere. In fact, once acquired, you must read it in your mind, away from the piano, as often as you can until it is permanently memorized. Another advantage is that if you get stuck in the middle of playing a piece, you can easily restart by reading that section of the music in your mind. Photographic memory also allows you to read ahead as you play which helps you to think ahead. Another advantage is that it will help your sight reading.

The main disadvantage is that most people cannot retain photographic memory for long periods of time since maintenance requires more work than other methods because of the high bandwidth of visual images. Another disadvantage is that picturing the music in the mind and reading it is a comparatively slow mental process that can interfere with the playing. However, if you follow the methods discussed here, you may find it much easier than you thought. In principle, once you have memorized a piece, you know every note and therefore should be able to map it back to the sheet music, thus helping the photographic memory. Once you have acquired most of the types of memories discussed here, adding photographic memory requires very little additional work, and you reap considerable rewards. Thus every pianist should use a certain minimum of photographic memory. The first line, containing the key and time signatures, is a good place to start.

For those who think that they do not have photographic memory, try the following trick. First memorize a short piece of music. Once each section is memorized, map it back onto the score from which you learned the piece; that is, for each note you play, try to picture the corresponding note on the sheet music. Since you know every note, HS, mapping it back from the keyboard to the sheet music should be simple. When mapping back, look at the score to make sure that every note is in the correct position on the right page. Even the expression markings should be memorized. Go back and forth, playing from photographic memory and mapping back from the keyboard to the sheet music until the photograph is complete. Then you can amaze your friends by writing down the score for the entire piece, starting from anywhere! Note that you will be able to write the whole music, forwards or backwards, or from anywhere in the middle, or even each hand separately. And they thought only Wolfgang could do it!

[1.III.6.10.3] Keyboard Memory -- Mental Play

In keyboard memory, you remember the sequence of keys and hand motions, with the music, as you play. It is as if you have a piano in your mind, and can play it. Start the keyboard memory by memorizing HS, then HT. Then when you are away from the piano, play the piece in your mind, again HS first. Playing in your mind (mental play – MP), without the piano, is our ultimate memory goal, using keyboard memory as a stepping stone. Playing HT in your mind is not necessary at first, especially if you find it to be too difficult, although you will eventually be playing HT with ease. During MP, take note of which sections you forgot, then go to the music/piano and refresh your memory. You might try photographic memory on parts that you tend to forget using keyboard memory because you need to look at the score anyway in order to re-memorize. MP is difficult not only because you have to have it memorized, but also because you don't have hand memory or the piano sound to help; however, this is precisely why it is so powerful.

Keyboard memory has most of the advantages of photographic memory but has the added advantage that the memorized notes are piano keys instead of tadpoles on a sheet of paper; therefore, you do not have to translate from tadpoles to the keys. This allows you to play with less effort compared to photographic memory, since there is no need to go through the extra process of interpreting the music score. The expression markings are not markings on paper, but mental concepts of the music (music memory). Every time you practice, keyboard memory (as well as hand memory and music memory) automatically maintains itself, whereas photographic memory does not. You can practice MP without a piano, thus more than doubling the time available for practice, and you can play ahead, just as with photographic memory.

When using keyboard memory, you tend to make the same mistakes, and get stuck at the same places, as when playing at the piano. This makes sense because all mistakes originate in the brain. This suggests that we may be able to practice and improve certain aspects of piano playing by using only MP -- that would be a truly unique advantage! Most of the suggestions for memorizing given in this book apply best to keyboard memory, which is another one of its advantages. MP is the best test of true memory – when you conduct MP, you will realize how much you still depend on hand memory even after you thought that you had acquired keyboard memory. Only after acquiring sufficient MP can you be essentially free of hand memory. However, hand memory is always a good backup – even when you have lost mental memory, you can usually restore it without looking at the score by just playing it out on the piano using hand memory.

For those who wish to learn sight singing and acquire absolute (or perfect) pitch, MP automatically develops those skills. The keyboard memory visualizes the keyboard, which helps in finding the right key for absolute pitch, a skill you will need when composing, or improvising at the piano. Therefore, those practicing MP should also practice sight singing and absolute pitch, since they have already partly learned those skills. See section 11 and section 12 below for more details. In fact, MP does not work well without perfect pitch. Doubtless, MP is one of the ways by which the musical geniuses got to be what they were. Thus many of these "genius feats" are achievable by practically all of us if we know how to practice them. Conclusion: memory leads to keyboard/mental play, which leads to relative/absolute pitch! In other words, these are essential components of technique -- when you achieve them all, your ability to memorize and to perform will make a quantum jump. Moreover, MP is the key that opens the doors to the world of concert pianists and composers.

As with any memory procedure, MP must be practiced from the very first year of piano lessons. If you are over 20 years old, and never practiced MP, it may take a year of diligent practice for you to become comfortable with it, and to use it properly; learning MP is only slightly easier than perfect pitch. Therefore, as soon as you memorize a segment, play it in your mind, and maintain it just as any other type of memory. You should eventually be able to play the entire composition in your mind. You will think back in amazement and say to yourself, "Wow! That was easier than I thought!", because this book provides the pre-requisites needed for MP.

MP will give you the ability to start anywhere within a segment -- something that is difficult to learn in any other way. You can also gain a much clearer concept of the structure of the composition and the sequence of melodies, because you can now analyze all those constructs in your head. You can even "practice" at speeds that your fingers cannot manage. The fingers can never achieve speeds that the brain cannot; you can certainly try it with partial success, but it will be uncontrollable. Thus MP at fast speeds will help the fingers play faster. When you become good at it, playing in your mind does not have to take much time because you can play it very fast, or in abbreviated fashion, skipping easy sections and concentrating only on places where you normally encounter difficulties. Perhaps the single greatest benefit of MP is that your memory will improve so much, that you will gain the confidence to perform flawlessly. Such confidence is the best known way for eliminating nervousness. If you experienced any enlightenment as you learned the other methods of this book, wait till you master MP -- you will wonder how you ever had the courage to perform anything in public without being able to play it in your mind -- you have entered a new world, having acquired abilities that are highly admired by any audience.

There is another advantage of MP -- the more pieces you memorize in your mind, the easier it becomes to memorize more! This happens because you are increasing the number of associations. Hand memory is the opposite -- it becomes harder to memorize as your repertoire increases because the possibility for confusion increases. Also, your MP skill will increase rapidly as you practice it and discover its numerous powers. Because MP is useful in so many ways, you will automatically practice it more and more, and become even better at it. All concert pianists conduct MP out of necessity, whether they were formally taught MP or not. A few lucky students were taught MP; for the rest, there is a mad scramble to learn this "new" skill that they are expected to have when they reach a certain skill level. Fortunately, it is not a difficult skill to master for the serious student because the rewards are so immediate and far-reaching that there is no problem with motivation.

[1.III.6.10.4] Theoretical Memory

At the advanced level, learning MP is easy because such students have studied some theory. A good solfege course should teach this skill, but solfege teachers do not always teach memorizing skills or MP. Theory lessons will give you the best way to memorize. By associating the music with the underlying theory, you can establish firm associations with basic concepts. Unlike all the other memories, theoretical memory has deeper associations because theory leads to a better understanding of the music and the associations are more detailed – small details that you hardly noticed before can take on major significance. At the very least, you should note the main characteristics of the composition such as key signature, time signature, rhythm, chord structure, chord transitions, harmony, melodic structure, etc.

In summary, keyboard memory should be your primary method of memory. You must hear the music at the same time, so musical memory is a part of this process. Enlist the help of photographic memory whenever it comes easily, and add as much theoretical memory as you can. You have not really memorized until you can play the piece in your mind -- this is the only way in which you can gain confidence to perform musically and with confidence. You can use it to reduce nervousness and it is the fastest and easiest way to learn relative/perfect pitch. In fact, MP is a powerful method that affects practically every musical activity you conduct at and away from the piano. This is not surprising because everything you do originates in the brain, and MP is how the music was composed. It not only solidifies keyboard memory but also helps musicality, music memory, photographic memory, performances, pitch accuracy, playing cold, etc. Don't be passive and wait for the music to come out of the piano, but actively anticipate the music you want to produce – which is the only way to execute a convincing performance. MP is how the great geniuses accomplished much of what they did, yet too many teachers have not taught this method: it is little wonder that so many students view the achievements of the great pianists as unattainable. We have shown here that MP is not only attainable, but must be an integral part of learning piano.

1.III.6.11] Maintenance

There is no more effective maintenance procedure than using keyboard memory and MP. Make a habit of playing in your mind at every opportunity you have. The difference between a good memorizer and a poor memorizer is not so much "memory power" as mental attitude -- what do you do with your brain during your waking and sleeping hours? Good memorizers have developed a habit of continually cycling their memory at all times. Therefore, when you practice memorizing, you must also train your mind to constantly work with the memorization. Poor memorizers will require a lot of effort at first because their brains are not accustomed to automatically perform memory functions continually, but is not that difficult if practiced over an extended period of time (years). Once you learn MP, this task will become much easier. Savants generally have problems of repetitive motions: their brains are cycling the same activity over and over again at all times. This can explain why they cannot perform many normal functions but can have incredible memories and amazing musical abilities, especially when we view these savants in the light of our above discussions about memory and playing music in your mind.

Maintenance time is a good time to revisit the score and check your accuracy, both for the individual notes and the expression marks. Since you used the same score to learn the piece, there is a good chance that if you made a mistake reading the score the first time, you will make the same mistake again later on, and never catch your mistake. One way around this problem is to listen to recordings. Any major difference between your playing and the recording will stand out as a jarring experience and is usually easy to catch.

A good maintenance procedure is to go through the process first used to learn/memorize the piece, such as starting from arbitrary places, playing very slowly, playing cold, etc. Make sure that you still remember it HS. This can become a real chore for major pieces, but is worth it, because you don't want to find out that you need it during a performance. These HS maintenance sessions are not just for memory. This is the time to try new things, playing much faster than final speed, and generally cleaning up your technique. Extended HT playing often introduces timing and other unexpected errors and this is the time to fix them by using the metronome. Therefore, playing HS for both memory and technique enhancement is a very worthwhile endeavor. The best preparation for recovery from flubs during a performance is HS practice and MP. Then, if you flub or have a blackout, you have many options for recovery, such as: keep on playing with one hand, first recovering one hand, and then adding the other, or just keep the melody going.

[1.III.6.12] Sight Readers versus Memorizers: Learning Bach's Inventions

Many good sight readers are poor memorizers and vice versa. This problem arises because good sight readers initially find little need to memorize and enjoy sight reading, so they end up practicing sight reading at the expense of memorizing. The more they sight read, the less memory they need, and the less they memorize, the worse memorizers they become, with the result that one day they wake up and conclude that they are unable to memorize. Of course, there are naturally "talented" readers who have genuine memory problems, but these comprise a negligibly small minority. Therefore, the difficulty of memorizing arises principally because of a psychological mental block built up over long periods of time. Good memorizers can experience the reverse problem; they can't sight read because they automatically memorize everything and rarely have a chance to practice reading. However, this is not a symmetric problem because practically all advanced pianists know how to memorize; therefore, poor memorizers also had the misfortune of never having acquired advanced technique; that is, the technical level of poor memorizers is generally lower than that of good memorizers.

"Sight reading" is used loosely in this section to mean true sight reading as well as practicing music with the help of the score. The distinction between sight reading a piece one had never seen and a piece that had been played before is not important here. In the interest of brevity, that distinction will be left to the context of the sentence.

It is more important to be able to memorize than to sight read because you can survive as a pianist without good sight reading ability, but you can't become an advanced pianist without the ability to memorize. Memorizing is not easy for the average pianist who was not trained in memory. Sight readers who cannot memorize face an even more formidable problem. Therefore, poor memorizers who wish to acquire a memorized repertoire must do so by starting with a mental attitude that this is going to be a long term project with numerous obstacles to overcome. As shown above, the solution, in principle, is simple -- make it a practice to memorize everything before you learn the piece. In practice, the temptation to learn quickly by reading the score is often too irresistible. You need to fundamentally change the way you practice new pieces.

The most difficult problem encountered by sight readers is the psychological problem of motivation. For these good readers, memorizing seems like a waste of time because they can quickly learn to play many pieces reasonably well by reading. They might even be able to play difficult pieces by using hand memory, and if they have a blackout, they can always refer back to the music in front of them. Therefore, they can manage without memorizing. After years of practicing piano this way, it becomes very difficult to learn how to memorize because the mind has become dependent on the score. Difficult pieces are impossible under this system, so they are avoided in favor of a large number of easier compositions. With this awareness of potential difficulties, let's try to work through a typical program for learning how to memorize.

The best way to learn how to memorize is to memorize a few, new, short pieces, instead of memorizing something you can already play. Once you successfully memorize a few pieces without too much effort, you can start building confidence and improving the memorizing skills. When these skills are sufficiently developed, you might even think of memorizing old pieces you had learned by reading.

Piano sessions should be either memorizing sessions or technical practice sessions. This is because playing other things during memory sessions will confuse the material being memorized. During technical practice sessions, you almost never need the score. Even during memorizing sessions, use the score only in the beginning and then put it away.

As an example of short pieces to memorize, let's learn three of Bach's 2-part Inventions: #1, #8, and #13. I will go through #8 with you. After learning #8, try #1 yourself and then start on #13. The idea is to learn all three simultaneously, but if that proves too taxing, try two (#8 and #1), or even just #8. It is important that you try only what you think you can comfortably handle, because the objective here is to demonstrate how easy it is. The schedule given below is for learning all three at once. We are assuming that you have learned the material of sections I to III, and that your technical level is such that you are ready to tackle the Bach Inventions. The pedal is not used in any of the Bach Inventions.
Ochi
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Enregistré le : dim. 13 juil., 2014 18:26

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Ochi »

.
Modifié en dernier par Ochi le mer. 07 févr., 2018 20:31, modifié 1 fois.
pianojar
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par pianojar »

Tiré de l'interview de Lucas Debargue sur l'autre fil

"Autre propos rapporté : vous auriez appris, entre autres, une œuvre aussi difficile que la 3e sonate de Prokofiev, d’oreille.

L.D. : Oui. Il n’y a rien de génial là-dedans, c’est juste une capacité de concentration et de patience"

J'ai essayé mais je crois que le pb c'est qu'on a pas le même cerveau § :( :mrgreen:

Sinon je suis quasiment incapable d'apprendre quoi que ce soit par coeur, il faut reconnaitre que je n'essaie plus. En fait les seuls parties que je connais par coeur sont des passages souvent assez rapides d'oeuvres que j'ai travaillé il y a fort longtemps à une époque ou je ne m'éparpillais pas et ou lorsque je travaillais un morceau je ne jouais quasi exclusivement que ce morceau. En fait c'est plus une mémoire digitale qui s'installe automatiquement mais qui est dangereuse car si l'on perd le fil c'est le trou noir. Du reste si je prend le même passage et que j'essaie de le jouer à vitesse réduite en essayant d'anticiper ce que je vais devoir jouer cela ne passe plus.
Ces passages qui se sont gravés dans la mémoire vont y rester même après des périodes très longues (plusieurs années) sans jouer le morceau. Sans doute que pour des pianistes qui arrivent à apprendre des oeuvres parfaitement, ils n'ont plus qu'à puiser dans leur bibliothèque interne ou tout est gravé. Cela leur parait évidemment facile puisqu'il ne font pas d'effort, l'oeuvre se présente à eux de manière naturelle.

edit : Il a mémorisé en 9 semaines la totalité du dictionnaire de Scrabble français (sans parler la langue) pour devenir champion du monde de scrabble francophone......
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Richards
BluePhoenix05
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par BluePhoenix05 »

Ochi a écrit :-1ere mesure + premiere note de la mesure d`apres (vous verrez pourquoi apres)
[...]
-Le travail de la deuxieme mesure (et des suivantes) s`effectue de la meme maniere. La seule difficulte est le raccord d`une mesure avec la precedente et la suivante, d`ou l`interet de toujours ajouter la premiere note de la mesure d`apres. C`est elle qui fait le lien entre 2 mesures.
C'est surtout parce qu'il vaut mieux terminer en prenant appui sur un temps fort et éviter de s'arrêter "en suspension" sur un temps faible, car si on prend cette dernière habitude (pas très naturelle ni très musicale), on risque de ne pas avoir à la fin un enchaînement naturel "qui avance" (en restant trop longtemps sur le temps faible) voire s'arrêter sans raison sur un temps faible.

Car sinon s'il s'agit juste d'enchaîner rien n'empêche de travailler en répétant : dernière note de la 1ere mesure [= levée] + 2e mesure (ce qui peut être aussi une très bonne chose à faire, mais en rajoutant le temps fort de la 3e mesure ou bien en bouclant sur la dernière note de la 1ere mesure puis temps fort de la 2e).

Ce que tu décrit s'apparente davantage au cycling (quel est l'équivalent en français ?), tel que décrit par Chang, si tu souhaites aller consulter ce qu'il en dit :wink:.
Presto
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Enregistré le : sam. 19 juil., 2014 17:07

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Presto »

le bouclage, un des grands moments du bouquin :D
"Vivi felice" Domenico Scarlatti,
pianojar
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par pianojar »

C'est un peu hors sujet car malheureusement pour nous autres qui avons soi-disant des cerveaux "normaux" on ne peut rien en retirer mais si on pouvait comprendre comment fonctionne le cerveau de cette personne .....
Né aveugle et autiste Il retient à tout jamais un morceau entendu une seule fois et le joue dans des styles totalement différents (ecoutez à partir de 8 min si vous n'écoutez pas tout)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Paravicini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk
Line-Marie

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Line-Marie »

La consolidation

L’automatisation des connaissances est essentielle. L’automatisation est le fait de passer d’un traitement conscient, avec effort à un traitement automatisé, inconscient.

Lors d’un nouvel apprentissage, notre cerveau a recours à un traitement explicite, c’est-à-dire une situation, ou plutôt un stade où le cortex préfrontal est fortement mobilisé par l’attention.

Le point culminant d’un apprentissage est le « transfert de l’explicite vers l’implicite » : c’est l’automatisation des connaissances et procédures. Cette automatisation passe par la répétition et l’entrainement. Elle permet de libérer de l’espace dans le cortex préfrontal afin d’absorber de nouveaux apprentissages.

Il est essentiel de répéter une connaissance nouvellement acquise :
◾pour mémoriser une information, notre cerveau a besoin de trois passages au minimum,
◾pour intégrer une nouvelle habitude, il a besoin de 21 jours.

Stanislas Dehaene (des cours intéressants au Collège de France http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/st ... esumes.htm) insiste sur le rôle joué par le sommeil dans cette phase de répétition et de consolidation. Il affirme qu’après une période d’apprentissage, une période de sommeil, même courte, améliore
◾la mémoire
◾la généralisation
◾la découverte de régularités
pianojar
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par pianojar »

pianojar a écrit :C'est un peu hors sujet car malheureusement pour nous autres qui avons soi-disant des cerveaux "normaux" on ne peut rien en retirer mais si on pouvait comprendre comment fonctionne le cerveau de cette personne .....
Né aveugle et autiste Il retient à tout jamais un morceau entendu une seule fois et le joue dans des styles totalement différents (ecoutez à partir de 8 min si vous n'écoutez pas tout)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Paravicini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpIigV7-kJk
Une autre video assez etonnante sur Derek Paravicini (notamment le morceau de jazz qu'il rejoue après une écoute, le comparatif par ordinateur est assez impressionnant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8EJ_rISoaM
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Kât
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Kât »

Je remonte ce fil que j'ai lu en entier sans trouver de réponse à ma question.
J'ai une nouvelle étude à travailler, et en la travaillant hier je me suis aperçue que je ne regardais plus du tout la partition. Je n'ai pas cherché à l'apprendre par coeur et me retrouve donc à l'avoir appris à mon insu. En fait j'ai constaté que c'est le cas à chaque nouvelle pièce dernièrement. Cela m'embête car je pense que c'est du 'mauvais' par coeur, à peu près essentiellement basé sur la mémoire kinesthésique, et sur une espèce de mémoire visuelle "géographique" (la même qui vous fait retrouver votre chemin dans le métro par la forme des couloirs alors que vous avez complètement oublié le numéro de la ligne et la direction...)

Ma question est donc: quand on se retrouve avec ça sur une pièce, comment la reprendre pour en faire du par coeur fiable??
Mathieu79
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Mathieu79 »

Kât a écrit :Je remonte ce fil que j'ai lu en entier sans trouver de réponse à ma question.
J'ai une nouvelle étude à travailler, et en la travaillant hier je me suis aperçue que je ne regardais plus du tout la partition. Je n'ai pas cherché à l'apprendre par coeur et me retrouve donc à l'avoir appris à mon insu. En fait j'ai constaté que c'est le cas à chaque nouvelle pièce dernièrement. Cela m'embête car je pense que c'est du 'mauvais' par coeur, à peu près essentiellement basé sur la mémoire kinesthésique, et sur une espèce de mémoire visuelle "géographique" (la même qui vous fait retrouver votre chemin dans le métro par la forme des couloirs alors que vous avez complètement oublié le numéro de la ligne et la direction...)

Ma question est donc: quand on se retrouve avec ça sur une pièce, comment la reprendre pour en faire du par coeur fiable??
Bonjour Kât,

Pour que ce soit fiable , il faut que tu arrives à jouer en suivant la partition.
Plusieurs pistes pour réaliser cela:

Compter en jouant: tu suivras beaucoup mieux la partition.
Tu peux aussi altérer ta vitesse habituelle en jouant moins vite , et donc si elle n'est pas assez bien maîtrisé, tu devrais trouver les endroits à retravailler.

ça peut être interessant aussi d'essayer de reprendre à n'importe quel moment , ça forcera la lecture c'est ce que je trouve le plus dur quand on a appris "par cœur ".

Les mains séparés peut être interessant , on s’aperçoit parfois , que des enchaînements ne viennent plus naturellement.

C'est une petite vue d’ensemble que j'applique à mon niveau. Cela peut changer quand on est plus proche du soleil ^^.

Amuse toi bien,

Math
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Lee
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Lee »

Je crois qu'il n'y a pas une façon fiable pour apprendre par coeur qui fonctionne pour tout le monde. Tu peux par contre "mettre en difficulté" ton mémoire pour défier et te forcer à approfondir le mémoire. Une façon est de jouer très très lentement. Une autre est d'arrêter nette dans des endroits et essayer de reprendre exactement là. Encore une autre est de commencer n'importe où dans ton morceau. Je n'ai jamais essayé la dernière, je crois pour ce faire il faut avoir appris par coeur la partition les notes à tel point qu'on peut les écrire tous sur une page blanche.
“Wrong doesn't become right just because it's accepted by a majority.” - Booker Washington
Mathieu79
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Mathieu79 »

Lee a écrit : Il faut avoir appris par coeur la partition les notes à tel point qu'on peut les écrire tous sur une page blanche.
J'aime bien cette phrase, BluePhoenix05 me dit aussi la même chose. J'ai l'impression qui faut tout de même un niveau conséquent pour y arriver. Mais l'image est bien vu.

Math
Modifié en dernier par Mathieu79 le jeu. 29 oct., 2015 15:12, modifié 1 fois.
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Okay
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Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Okay »

Je crois aussi que les types de mémoire dominants ou efficaces, et au sens large les processus d'apprentissages, sont assez personnels. Sans en remettre en cause la pertinence, je ne partage pas du tout cette phrase car je ne me sers quasiment pas de ma mémoire visuelle en musique. Mais je sais que certains musiciens voient la partition défiler en jouant... je pourrais réécrire les partitions de ce que je sais par coeur, mais ce serait une "reconstitution" de la partition à partir de mémoires non visuelles, et certainement pas sa régurgitation.

J'ai aussi comme point de départ la mémoire kinesthésique, c'est pour moi celle qui s'installe d'abord et la plus performante au piano. Mais s'en contenter est en effet dangereux, car elle est très linéaire et déraille assez facilement (il ne faut pas non plus négliger qu'elle peut aussi sauver la mise lorsque des pensées parasites surviennent, si la tête n'est plus là quelques instants, au moins les mains "savent" la suite). La première chose pour la consolider est d'avoir le plus possible conscience des doigtés qu'on utilise, ça permet de donner une dimension un peu plus mentale à cette mémoire. Ensuite, il est utile de figer les choses via la mémoire conceptuelle, c'est à dire mémoriser la plupart des éléments du morceau à l'exception de la hauteur des notes (essentiellement sa forme avec points de repères et transitions, certains rythmes, certaines dynamiques, etc). Je trouve cette mémoire particulièrement confortable car on ne stocke pas de l'information brute (au secours), mais notre compréhension. Pour faire une analogie, c'est comme apprendre l'histoire que raconte une poésie un peu narrative, au lieu de l'apprendre au mot près. Dès qu'on sait reformuler le déroulé des événements avec nos propres mots (leur enchaînement obéit à une logique, dont la nécessité mâche la rétention de l'information), c'est beaucoup plus facile ensuite de leur substituer les mots du poète.
C'est également confortable de pouvoir entendre la musique dans sa tête indépendamment du fait de la jouer, comme si on se repassait mentalement l'enregistrement d'une musique qu'on ne joue pas ou qui n'est pas du piano. Ca aide à la projection vers l'avant ensuite.

Comme le rappelle Lee, il est très utile de mettre sa mémoire à l'épreuve en s'habituant à commencer le morceau n'importe où. Le vrai test c'est de faire ça loin du clavier en s'imaginant le jouer, car la mémoire kinesthésique "simulée" est très fragile lorsque le texte n'est pas bien su.
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Kât
Messages : 795
Enregistré le : sam. 01 nov., 2014 15:59
Mon piano : Erard 0 1920
Localisation : Yvelines

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Kât »

Merci beaucoup pour vos réponses qui me donnent plein de pistes de travail!
Mains séparées, j'ai testé, ça marche encore. En revanche en commençant n'importe où dans le morceau je suis sûre à 100% que ça ne marchera plus! Je vais donc m'y entraîner...

Je suis à mille lieues d'être un jour capable de voir la partition défiler dans ma tête, il faudra faire sans pour ma part!
En effet Okay j'ai remarqué que je me plante précisément quand je me trompe de doigté (ma prof me donne un doigté une fois pour toutes, et une fois qu'il est décidé, il ne doit en aucun cas changer, ce qui me convient très bien)
Si par inadvertance j'intervertis un doigt pour un autre, ça enraye direct la machine et je m'arrête net (il pourrait être utile d'arriver à se rattraper, mais je n'en suis pas encore là!)
Je vais donc travailler en essayant de 'conscientiser' ça au maximum.
Intéressant la mémoire conceptuelle, si je comprends bien il s'agit d'utiliser le déroulé de "l'histoire" du morceau, un événement en amenant un autre, en ayant mémorisé la structure globale de la pièce. Ce que je travaille est extrêmement simple mais on peut quand même y identifier des éléments structurels (thème, variante, reprise...) qui permettent de mémoriser une narration.

Je vais essayer de mettre tout ça en place dès le début de chaque nouvelle pièce, car ça m'agace de faire du par coeur bête qui s'enraye au moindre grain de sable!
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Okay
Messages : 5212
Enregistré le : mar. 13 juil., 2010 17:32

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Okay »

Oui c'est exactement ça. Le côté mémoire conceptuelle n'est pas du tout lié au niveau des morceaux. Ca peut s'appliquer à n'importe quoi, toute pièce peut-être décrite et ramenée quelques événements, qui se suivent et peuvent s'emboîter. J'évoque souvent l'idée de poupées russes, qui permet de concevoir les choses du général au particulier, de donner du recul.
Pour ce qui est de figer les doigtés, c'est l'une des conditions de la sécurité au clavier. Le piège c'est de penser qu'une pièce est trop simple et qu'on peut donc s'en passer, mais les grains de sable se faufilent partout !
Presto
Messages : 4486
Enregistré le : sam. 19 juil., 2014 17:07

Re: Comment apprenez-vous par cœur ?

Message par Presto »

pour la mémoire conceptuelle, le Hodeir doit bien faciliter le travail
"Vivi felice" Domenico Scarlatti,
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